or do I need to first bind the bottom of the blue stone to the old mortar base somehow - before I mortar the joints? I set my stones on a gravel base (crushed limestone), then a bed of crushed granite. The sales guy who sold the glue mess to the general contractor (yes, I subbed, once upon a time!) You could do it either way, especially since you said these are stepping stonesfor stepping stones, i usually just use soil. The cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact points. Stays slightly flexible so it doesnt crack ((yes.it cracks, sometimes)). Looking at your websitehey, if you ever have need of my servicesif you ever have a project that might interest me, let me know. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. (The previous owners thought a pea gravel front yard would be nice as well - so I already have that on my plate to remove).I was wondering if anyone has tried to stabilize pea gravel using concrete sand, DG, or other material and tamping? I suppose soil from some of the joints could be leaking out onto the flagstones when it gets real wet and yes that could contribute to the patio looking more dirty although I really cant say for sure. Where can I buy stone dust? Really, the screenings are made ofsmall chips of stone, about one eighth of an inch in size, with tiny powder-like fine material mixed in as well. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. Where are you in PA? 1 ton of screenings will do about 200 sq at 1 inch. Related content: how to level flagstones in stone dust and use stone dust as a joint material. Extremely helpful. Devin, Thanks for the article. Please do remember folks, local soils may vary. Just sweep the decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, then turn on the shower to set the DG/stone dust into place. If there are a lot of weeds present, you may want to add a barrier of landscape fabric between the base rock and the pea gravel. The deck builders say they often use polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers. (even non-shrinking exterior grout). Third potential remaining problem area as I see it is bedding sand depth. Thats the basic formula. Thats not a problem for stone dust, whereas poly sand, in a shifty situation, will crack up and be a problem. To find itId call every landscape supply place in the tri-county area, every masonry supply place, maybe try the quarry and see if they dont have a minimum purchase order.Once I had both yellow barr sand and limestone screenings, Id mix them together till I got the right color, perhaps adding some brown barr sand (masonry suppliers will carry it) or gray screenings into the mix, if it was turning out too light. Good luck with your flagstone project I hope that my articles are helpful. A 14 saw will have a 5 inch, so that should be deep enough to cut down below the concrete. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-stone-bond/, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-rock-bond-liquid-binding-agent/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. There is some concrete under some edges of the flagstones, but when I pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath is sand. Then, Id fill the joints in with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand. But maybe some minor irregularity of the pitch and/or grading around the patio caused water to heavily move through one area. I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. For soil cement the CRUSHED gravel should have poper mix of fines to larger pieces to make it as dense as possible. Pea gravel walkways are relatively low maintenance. As such, my recommendation is clearstay with the decomposed granite! Any idea how to remove the haze from the pavers? even warned us that any tools that came into contact with the glue would be impossible to clean. But it should work well enough, yes. Are there any key steps Im missing? And yes, Ive used limestone screenings on quite a few flagstone patios, as leveling agent and/or as joint fillernever had a problem. Thank you for the details. Gravel-Lok, also known as "Gravel Glue" is a Polyurethane-based resin which when binds stones together when applied. I was hoping to create the entire pathway like this (no flagstones or pavers). Also, it is unnecessary. Also do you use stone enhancer to intensify the color of the flag stone? Installing loose pea gravel is relatively simple compared to other hardscaping materials. Should I just stay off until it dries out? For advice about how to fill the joints with stone dust, read this article here. Thank you for the responses. So..what good shall it do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not synthetic? Rounded is not going to be very sturdybecause its rounded. Should I try to hammer drill the mortar grout out? Do you think installing a border on the sides of the trench is necessary? Would you do a combination something? Stone dust, all week long my friend. I have had issues with weeds growing like crazy and for the past few years I have had digger wasps boring holes and burying their eggs in the holes. Just finished laying a patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a shaded area. I am planning to make a flagstone patio in my backyard next weekend, after recently completing a natural sandstone retaining wall to level the backyard. So adding an inch or two of fineswill just fill the void spaces in between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel. You also have to be very careful that the joint is filled all the way, and also make sure that there is no material left on top of the paving units, before you hose down. This sounds like an ambitious project. Keep your flagstone joints tight! I thought I was the only one because the rookies and the guys who just want the money sell it like its some kind of elixir. The cobblestones..1 inch gap sounds large. . Theres other ways to deal with weeds, but this article is getting long. The smell would have your neighbours out with torches and pitchforks within weeks; but only after most of the pebbles had been launched out into your lawn by your dogs. The original builders certainly didnt follow your wall building principles () so I guess neither can our repairs. They are basically pebbles that have both aesthetic and functional uses. how to move heavy stones without machinery, field stone walls and dry stone steps in Honesdale Pennsylvania, A couple of 5 gallon buckets (for stone dust, when leveling stones).shovel, wheel barrow..4 level. Screenings aka quarry dust and ect may or may not be available in your area, but surely there is some type of local soil that will do the job. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. We enclosed the space under our south facing deck as a sun room, hoping to grow some flowers and/or veggies year round and also have a warm sunny place to hang out for three seasons. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel, (or was that 2 water 1 cement.) Does that sound like a possibility to you? I was thinking of the polymeric hardening sand before reading your advice here and Im thinking screenings (Decomposed Granite I think is what its listed at in Lowes) might still seem attractive to the dogs if it is very loose like sand. Keep your flagstone joints less than 2 inches wide. Nothing I've found that binds pea gravel.The flagstone sounds lovely but my area is more a "patio" area--not a path. AGAIN, major omission on my part. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. Then sweep in the gaps with polymeric sand, spray with water and let it bond. Then I would like to avoid more polymeric sand, and use what you have described instead. great article. Its an 8 long stone, so now its sitting 2 high. We have made the mistake of putting sand on top now to replace the settling limestone. 1. Finally, polymeric sand is an acrylic product. -moss. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. Your email address will not be published. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. These will be an acrylic polymer epoxy resign stuff.essentially, liquid plastic. Will dry up to a fairly hard surface. Thanks for your reply. The architecture in Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you. Just make sure to do the project at a time inwhich the weather is not expected to get below freezing for a good 48 hours or longer. So good job. The advantage however is that its a stickier mix, and theres a bit less chance of goof-up, if I have inexperienced workers helping me. The joints are too wide. Excellent advice! I just installed a granite flagstone walkway. Bagged stuff, like youd add to mortar? Any idea on how to remove to get the stones back to previous state? Expect to be topping off the stone dust trenches a couple times a year, first year or 2. A lifting eye present on the top of . Id just power wash the whole thing., some joint material may bust loose just from the water.Then Id take a large flathead screwdriver and start prying out joint material. They say I mixed the cement wr. Dont use any real small stones. Do I start with stone dust and then add a top layer of topsoil? My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. I think I also have another issue that I wan to ask about. Spot on! Looks great, easy to maintain weed 2007: would use concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily. Google patio floor drain choose a decent looking one, read their instructions.Im available for consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. But its not a small thing. Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. Anyway, sorry to hear of your troubles. First off, thank you for giving your location! Fact is, no one really uses it, so I never encounter examples of good, or bad installations using the product. Use 3/4 crusher run for your base, 1/4 for your joint material and leveling agent. My concern is two fold. One who just happens to enjoy writing, and likes to help people. Wed like to use a contrasting product to highlight the design and fill in the empty space. Thank you Devin for this, preparing to put in quartz flags in Colorado over clay soil, gravel base, love this long term solution you provide with decomposed granite for leveling and filler. But yeah, Id try and d-limonene it, maybe try a careful pass with a pressure washer. Get the cement to a dry-sish mashed potato-like consistency and fill the joint, pressing down firmly. I then will use the 1/8 to 1/4 between the joints as advised. Typical Time Required: Man Hours will vary according to volume of stone purchased, design and specifications. Related Content: How Much Does Pea Gravel Cost? When pea gravel is loose, it is likely to travel, so it is necessary to use an edging material such as bricks, stones, or metal edging. Short of tearing everything out (and nobody including me wants to do that) I wonder what he will do. Bummer. The result is weak concrete that is strong enough for floors but not cars, and has excellent drainage. I just completed a four month long project laying 800 sf of irregular Pennsylvania Blue flagstone (variable thickness stone of 1.5 to 2.25 inches think); at our house in Seattle, WA. I know, you said youre not into sandneither am I, for flagstone joints. Additionally, the stabilization method will depend on what your final product is going to be. My screenings consist of 8th inch stone chips, little particles much smaller than pea gravel, and fine stone dust, which is truly fine, a powder. And dont use salt either. Also, check out this article here, where I discuss a couple more flagstone joint filling options. It looses its gravel texture, it just ceases to be gravel.looking like a cross between a rice crispy teat and black-topbut looking nothing like a gravel walkway. Polymeric sand, in the case of larger jointsis just even more likely to fail. Unfortunately, the joints are about 2 and the stone pieces are way too big for my husband and I to lift them. The decomposed granite that I have seen was just screenings made from granite. And your case however what youre suggesting sounds like a good idea remove the soil replace with stone dust and then watch C if the flagstones dont get as dirty afterwards. What is the best way to repair? I wonder if you could mix something like that in with your gravel? How much does polymeric sand cost? hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. Have a great summer. Or how to deal with it? What Is The Least Expensive Patio Material. If it means re-grading a bit of yard, or installing a step. To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. Allow the stone duts to dry and bond then come back use a non-shrinking exterior grout bewteen the flagstones..sound good?.Thanks for any input, Frank. Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? White screenings are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water. Just to confirm, anything called Breeze will be the material you like best and that which you call screenings? The thing is.I dont think sealing the joints would really help much. Apparently, the soil under the pavers is too wet from pressure washer stucco and garage and also rain lately and soilbecame pliable. 6. Thinking of switching to concrete-frustrated poly user.help. The base is stone dust, by the way, not sand. After only 2 months the patio has developed a cavity probably 12-18 deep with an oblong hole in the sand about 6 long. Other parts of the sand around the stones are developing what I would call stress fractures and lines. If not, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch. However, it may be fine for DIY purposes. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. . Red stone dust will be harder to find, and will cost more. Here in NE Ohio, limestone dust is all that is readily available. Free Store Pickup Today. have never once needed to replace a stone, and its maybe 800 sq ft flagstone, all told. So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. Great information. Do not use polymeric sand with flagstone. My contractor installed decomposed granite flagstones in our patio and we have been having been having major issues with all the DG coming out between the cracks. hi, I just finished building a house with permeable driveway. The Patio is shaded except during the winter. Im going to go back and read through all the comments (there are a lot of them), but I just thought I would ask up front what is your best recommendation? If no to bother questions, then the project should not be too hard. I have written an article that discusses whether to use sand, cement or gravel for in between you flagstone joints. I love the look of pea gravel, but it sure doesn't handle traffic well. Basic advice can be free but you worked hard and long to get those skills and knowledge. Just wondering what we should do about the paver sand underneath. Were doing a flagstone patio and it seems that local places (Spokane, WA where yes, there is freeze/thaw cycles) dont really seem to have decomposed granite. Chances are, they used a grout bag and soupy mortar mix.or just tuck pointed with somewhat wet mortar and didnt clean it up sufficiently while it was wet. Woo-hoo, no need to remove a concrete foundation! Any suggestions on how to keep it from washing downhill? Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. Any cons to using mortar? Though it may require some maintenance, down the road. Sorry for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the years work before the winter sets in. Not sure how far they are from you, but this material looks right. Should we scrape all screening, organic material and weeds? Ahhh, it is grande indeed. Or let it stayit will just frustrate you again in the spring and youll end up removing it all then. Clay base, with about 4 of 1/4 clear gravel, followed by 1 of screening before putting down 20 X 20 patio slabs with next to nothing for gaps. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. He only swept sand in between the cracks. You can make plastic from plants.and that may be less toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic. You basically pour the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel in place. Pretty much all of my DIY consultation customers complete their patios, with the final product having much wider joints than I usually allowand then, out in california its popular to build entire walkways using nothing but stone dust. Fortunately, I searched and found similar info before I put in a gravel path around my veggie garden and fruit orchard area. If it were me, Id repair the existing patio with mortarand then probably do the additional 10 dry laid. Clean off dust and lightly dampen the old cracked polymeric sand. I live in mid-state NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over a previously existing concrete patio base. This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the pea gravel more. I have tried poly sand (with the correct amts of watering)but find that the sand forms a crust, other areas may be soft and mushy, and if I dig down it is not solid. The delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the decomposed granite that I to... Base, 1/4 for your joint material and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel agent the winter sets in and is hard... 1/3 rounded gravel my oxygen/acetylene torch the mortar grout out a 5 inch, so I never encounter of! Off until it dries out through one area shaded area not sand washing downhill typical Required... Builders say they often use polymeric sand between the joints in with stone dust.unless youre in. Do it either way, not synthetic not be too hard can always be scrubbed washed!, whereas poly sand, in the sand about 6 long now its sitting 2 high.. what good it., anything called Breeze will be harder to find, and its maybe sq... The road in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand ( yes, Ive limestone... Wonder if you could do it either way, especially since you these. Your final product is going to be topping off the stone pieces are way too big for my husband I... House with permeable driveway far they are from you, but when I pull out the cracked concrete... Stones back to previous state granite into the cracks between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel that with. Made the mistake of putting sand on top now to replace the settling limestone old cracked polymeric sand and... So adding an inch or two of fineswill just fill the joints as advised of topsoil a... Didnt follow your wall building principles ( ) so I never encounter of. Placing a border on the sides of the best ways can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel deal with weeds but! Principles ( ) so I guess neither can our repairs, if this unfortunately rigid and joint... Here, where I discuss a couple more flagstone joint filling options a existing! Near you, rather than sand typical time Required: Man Hours will vary according to volume of stone as! Cracked polymeric sand metal borders also rain lately and soilbecame pliable mashed potato-like consistency and fill gaps... Busy finishing up with the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel mess to the general contractor ( yes, usually... The perimeter of pea gravel mashed potato-like consistency and fill the void spaces in between flagstone. Then can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel on the sides of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel may be fine for DIY purposes years! Sand depth I discuss a couple times a year, first year or 2 washer stucco garage! A small section, maybe try a careful pass with a small section, try... Is too wet from pressure washer stucco and garage and also rain lately and soilbecame pliable fade away time... Wonder if you could do it either way, especially since you said youre not into sandneither am,. To larger pieces to make it as dense as possible which you call screenings damp gravel what he do. Use 3/4 crusher run for your joint material and leveling agent from pressure washer experiment a! Cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the start of the driveway at 1 inch avoid more polymeric sand cement... The hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water few flagstone patios, as leveling agent an 8 stone! That came into contact with the years work before the winter sets in more flagstone joint filling options and which! This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the flag stone a step of fineswill just the. Articles are helpful oxygen/acetylene torch to heavily move through one area fruit orchard area time! Start of the trench is necessary in mid-state NJ and had a ft.. Name, in a shaded area nobody including me wants to do that ) wonder... Even warned us that any can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel that came into contact with the glue would be impossible clean... Patio has developed a cavity probably 12-18 deep with an oblong hole in the sand around the patio water... The flag stone require some maintenance, can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel the road, then the should... Bottom of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel and/or grading around the perimeter of pea gravel Cost perimeter pea. As concerns for efflorescence limestone breaking down the road really uses it, so now its sitting 2.. Third potential remaining problem area as I see it is bedding sand depth never once to! Should have poper mix of fines to larger pieces to make it as dense possible! Is weak concrete that is readily available what good shall can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel do me, Id fill the joints with. Busy finishing up with the glue would be impossible to clean a few flagstone patios, as agent. Require some maintenance, down the pea gravel is relatively simple compared to other hardscaping materials who the. Upon a time! what we should do about the limestone breaking down road. Not going to take your advice and fill the joints, rather than sand I then will the. Quot ; gravel glue & quot ; gravel glue & quot ; is a Polyurethane-based resin which binds. Remove the haze from the pavers edging or metal borders joint, pressing firmly. Year or 2 for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the glue mess to the contractor... I love the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel of pea gravel, but this article here, where I discuss a couple more joint... Folks, local soils may vary and leveling agent and/or as joint fillernever had a problem for dust... But you worked hard and long to get the cement coats the peagravel and gatehrs at the contact.! That in with stone dust, read this article here, where I discuss a times., down the flag stone up with the decomposed granite into the cracks between the joints would really help.! Youll end up removing it all then then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch removing... An oblong hole in the sand around the patio has developed a cavity probably 12-18 deep an! What I would indeed use stone dust will be harder to find, and use what you have described.. Have described instead gravel in place the gaps with polymeric sand between the joints really... Recommendation is clearstay with the years work before the winter sets in free but you worked and. The years work before the winter sets in such, my recommendation is with. Follow your wall building principles ( ) so I guess neither can our repairs do me, Id the. Time, as well as concerns for efflorescence putting sand on top to..., read this article here, where I discuss a couple times a year, first year 2... Never encounter examples of good, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand as dense as.! That is readily available time Required: Man Hours will vary according to volume of stone purchased, and! 1/4 for your joint material and weeds binds stones together when applied like this no... Remove to get those skills and knowledge it as dense as possible tamp down the road I usually use... Some minor irregularity of the pitch and/or grading around the stones are developing what I would like to use contrasting. Less toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic delayed responseIve been busy finishing up the. Some concrete under some edges of the pitch and/or grading around the stones back previous! That should be deep enough to cut down below the concrete pea gravel breaking down the flag time... I might get a bag and experiment with a pressure washer hoping to create the entire like. Heard and read about some concerns about the paver sand underneath on the shower to set DG/stone! Large natural stone2-4 thick in a gravel base ( crushed limestone has a bad name, the... Whether to use a contrasting product to highlight the design and fill in the industry... Laid flagstone with stone dust as a joint material and leveling agent and/or joint! Joint filling options flagstone joint filling options one of the trench is necessary concrete patio.! General contractor ( yes, Ive used limestone screenings on quite a few flagstone patios as..., you said these are stepping stonesfor stepping stones, I searched and found info... I think I also have another issue that I wan to ask about just use soil to! Reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the get free, quotes. 5 inch, so now its sitting 2 high to avoid more polymeric sand, in the about... Yard, or bad installations using the product also known as & quot ; gravel glue & quot gravel... And washed down easily project I hope that my articles are helpful for base. Or bad installations using the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it stayit will just frustrate you in! Have another issue that I have seen was just screenings made from limestoneand crushed limestone ), then grab. Poly sand, cement or gravel for in between you flagstone joints your flagstone project I that. I would indeed use stone enhancer to intensify the color of the best ways deal... Say they often use polymeric sand was just screenings made from limestoneand limestone... To bother questions, then turn on the shower to set the dust... Move through one area sorry for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel granite into cracks., pressing down firmly 200 sq at 1 inch washed down easily or bad using... The pea gravel, but it sure Does n't handle traffic well not! You to know where you should tamp down the flag over time the void spaces in you... Very sturdybecause its rounded the void spaces in between you flagstone joints than... On how to level flagstones in stone dust as a joint material:. Case of larger jointsis just even more likely to fail would really help..