I don't own them now. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm trying to think what I'veno, what I've done is, which is interesting, is I've sort of done that kind of thing your psychiatrist advises you to do, which is I'm projecting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Early 20th-century British and Continental. JUDITH RICHARDS: Akin to that, have you ever guaranteed works, JUDITH RICHARDS: at auctions? CLIFFORD SCHORER: But, you know, and with the absorption of the Higgins Armory collection, the unrestricted endowment grew by 25 percent, even though the Higgins was out of money, because of the way we orchestrated that handover. It's a photo of her, and unfortunately, there's a lot of blue hair; there's no kids. But I don't think she'sI think she's not an Italian native. I was in Prague. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I tried toI made every installation decision. It was extraordinary. But I'm pleased that I was lucky enough to be at the right moment in history, where the relative scholarship might have been weaker than it could otherwise have been, which would allow me to find a rather large gap in the fence through which I could walk, if you see how careful I'm trying to be. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, no. Boston. [Laughs.]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, I moved around quite a bit. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, the story is, I would say, more humorous than anything else, because my thought was that someday, when I was an old lonely geezer, I would have an antique shop, or I would sell bric-a-brac. CLIFFORD SCHORER: early panel paintings in New England, for example. And you know, the American catastrophe. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, I thought it was great, yes. JUDITH RICHARDS: You're keeping just the gallery in London. In A Fishergirl Baiting Lines (1881) a young fishlass is shown baiting . Because, you know, there was the idea that 550 objects could just be chucked into auction; you know, you could have a publicized sale and get rid of the company, and, you know, the library could go to the nation, and the archive could go to the National Gallery, and, you know, wash your hands with it. I mean, then it wasthen it was, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I would say by 1990I bought locally until '94, '95. He was a dealer and, you know, and an ennobled Italian, and it was in his collection. So, you know, that's why it's useful to have, you know, after you've made the emotional decision to handle something, to have a bit of a business meeting. In some ways, things that I thought were important moments are not as important as they were, because I've seen more examples of the same idea that I thought was such a novel idea. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, I know that. And I left and I started the company. So I've sold off most of my warehouses. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I was a willful and independent child. Clifford lived on month day 1984, at address, North Carolina. But that would be locally; like, if an opportunity arose, I would go; I would look; I would buy something at an auction. And commercially, it was a triumph because, of course, the Chinese were not in the market yet. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. I'm certain it was with Mildred, because she was very involved in all of those things. I mean, you know, that's. Winslow Homer. They want to hear what's the number and, you know, "When can you pay me?" JUDITH RICHARDS: So, that's the period of time, JUDITH RICHARDS: you were really developing. Schorer also describes his discovery of the Worcester Art Museum and his subsequent work there on the Museum's board and as president; his interest in paleontology and his current house by Walter Gropius in Provincetown, MA; his involvement with the purchase and support of Agnew's Gallery based in London, UK, and his work with its director, Anthony Crichton-Stuart; his thoughts on marketing at art shows and adapting Agnew's to the changing market for the collecting of Old Masters; the differences between galleries and auction houses in the art market today; and his expectations for his collection in the future. So. CLIFFORD SCHORER: it's ano, it's a part gift, part sale, and in the end, it hadthe strings that I had, they met them all, which were that they're going to do a focal exhibition on paleontology in thebecause they're doing a re-jigger of many of their exhibitions. And they would bring it to you, and that was incredibly annoying to someone with mywith my type of a brain. And that was really my main goal. But for me, it's the combination of the conception and the craft, so the conception is very important to me; knowing that [Guido] Reni stole his figure from the Apollo Belvedere because it was here when he was there is interesting to me and Iyou know, to find that out, if I didn't know it before, either by accident or by some kind person sharing it with me, I'myou know, it adds a layer to my experience of the art that's different from my aesthetic experience of the art. I mean, my desire to not live there. JUDITH RICHARDS: So this book was based on photographs with 15 layers of varnish. Victor Building Find Clifford Schorer's phone number, address, and email on Spokeo, the leading online directory for contact information. How much institutions' collecting is based on what collectors want to collect versuspossibly versus what the curators want to collect. There wereby the time, I mean, by the time Ithe irony of the story is that I then became a bankruptcy liquidator. JUDITH RICHARDS: to galleries was more limited? Yeah. Literally, very, very inexpensive. Just feeling and looking at the objects, and. CLIFFORD SCHORER: He stayed with my mother. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They were basedI think they'rewell, I mean, I know them as international, but, yes, they're based in London. She goes away, and she brings back a photograph of a 16-foot-deep hole in the ground, a modern color photograph of a 16-foot-deep hole in the ground, with them excavating this head. JUDITH RICHARDS: Oh. It's obviously spelled in a different alphabet. So I walked across the bridge with the gun towers, and you know. JUDITH RICHARDS: Oh, no, it's not that long. He said, "Who are you?" But I'm not going back to school." JUDITH RICHARDS: because of these paintings? You know. And it was obsessive. That's good." He said, "Well, we'll make you a Corporator." It's got to be more than 16 years ago because I've been on the roster there for 16 years, so maybe 20 years ago. [00:30:00]. The auction house will charge me zero." The Red School House - by Winslow Homer: The Turkey Buzzard - by Winslow Homer: The Veteran in a New Field - by Winslow Homer: The Water Fan - by Winslow Homer: The West Wind - by Winslow Homer: The Woodcutter - by Winslow Homer: Two Girls on the Beach Tynemouth - by Winslow Homer: Two Scouts - by Winslow Homer: Under the Coco Palm - by Winslow . I think the problem was it was the overlap between business and art that made it difficult for them to manage the institution. Is this Crespi?" So that's a modern phenomenon, where you have this conflict between, you know, a museum, institutional curator and private collectors who may desire that their collection end up on view and the curator may have opposing views. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Flea markets in Paris. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you were still living in Boston? CLIFFORD SCHORER: I have a brother, a younger brother. Have youhow do you go abouthow in those early years, how did you go about defining and refining what exactly you were looking for? Funding for this interview was provided by Barbara Fleischman. And then it would've been'87 would've been the class that I was coming in. And I said, "I'm not going back to school. As you say, this aesthetic experience or, you know, the cultivation of the eye or a satisfaction of the eye. [00:10:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: everything that's going on. And one professor in particular became a very close friend. Located in the Donald W. Reynolds Center for American Art and Portraiture (8th and F Streets NW), Size: 5 sound files (3 hr., 57 min.) JUDITH RICHARDS: And is that a storage spacedo you feel that you need to have a storage space where there's a viewing area, that you can pull things out and sit there and contemplate the works or. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They were doing that anyway. I would have left that to, you know, others in the art market to decide whether they would do it. We've been using their fabrics as our wall coverings in our booths, and, you know, amazing. Schorer also recalls Anna Cunningham; George Abrams; Sydney Lewis; Chris Apostle; Nancy Ward Neilson; Jim Welu, as well as Rita Albertson; Tanya Paul; Maryan Ainsworth; Thomas Leysen; Johnny Van Haeften; Otto Naumann; and Konrad Bernheimer, among others. JUDITH RICHARDS: Wow. It was justmy grandfather would look at something and understand intrinsically what it needed to do, and what the tolerances needed to be. Of the blue-and-white, and the highly decorated, sort of the Qing period stuff, that's all gone. CLIFFORD SCHORER: G-A-T-I-A. [00:16:00]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: plan, and obviously, it's allthe vicissitudes of fate will intervene, I'm sure, if I live long enough, but provided that I don't need the resources to live and provided that I haven't had anI haven't found that Leonardo to buy where I need to sell everythingthen obviously, I willright now, everything is intended as a gift to the institution where it's on loan, if I die while anything is there, and thenand thereafter we probably willif we move things around, we'll probably make accommodations. [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no. [They laugh.]. So I've always thought of myself as an autodidact. And I have it at home to remind myself of what an absolutely abysmal painter I am and to really, you know, bring homeyou know, I always think I can put myI can do anything I put my head to. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It was a little municipal museum. So I think that in order to have anything above 50 to under 500 survive and thrive to replace those dedicated 80 families of collectors who used to run around and buy those things, we need to create a sense of style that employs those things in a way that makes sense today, and that's what we try to do. So, I think18, 19, 20, in that area, I spent 26 weeks a year outside the United States. But it hammered down; I lost it, you know, and thought no more of it. We're German people. I mean, little things, but just lots of articles, publications, and now, you know, again, contributing to the San Francisco exhibition's works. Would I go to the library and spend time studying Chinese export porcelain? We've done Paris Tableau, which is obviously now over. JUDITH RICHARDS: I notice that there was a major contribution from, maybe, from your business to the Museum of Science. It's Triceratops Cliffbut this is entre nous. And also, art, to me, is the thing that can carry you to the grave, which, you know, the trades that I do, I'm as good as my last project in the trades that I do. And everything else, they don't care about. He is considered one of the foremost painters in 19th century America and a preeminent figure in American art. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I enjoyI don't know. So it was at that time, the seeds were planted to grow that institution visitation to 200,000, and that's happened. And Cliff, my father, is the same name as myself, as is my grandfather. The name is the same, unfortunately, so people know who it is. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. "I want to collect from the beginning, in the early 18th century, to the present; I wantI want this kind of collection or that kind of collection? Did you ever imagine focusing your entire life on thison collectingin every aspect? This recipe for Air Fryer Green Beans is perfect if you want a simple, side dish with less than 5 ingredients and minimal prep. You know, milk cartons filled with books. [00:36:00]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Islip, I think. So that kind of closed that circle, but. So, you know, those are the kinds of things that happen more frequently, which is that one finds a hand in a Carlo Maratti painting, and one then goes and finds that the Albertina has that hand in a sketchbook that is known to have been by [Andrea] Sacchi or Maratti. JUDITH RICHARDS: Your father was a businessman? I mean, you know. And my rooms were, you know, burgundy, and you know, very, very deep colors. It was a much smaller circle. And if you can't get more than 20,000 people in here, you've got a serious problem. Or you were intimidated about going to the museum? Nine times out of 10, they would have been in the Albertina or in the Met or in, you know, fill in the blank. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have you encountered any of those with the works you've acquired? I mean, I think you'll see. That market is extremely weak now, and, you know, in a way, it's good comeuppance, because there was a long period of time when all the boats were lifted by the tide, the good, the bad, and the ugly. JUDITH RICHARDS: You don't have the 110-foot specimen? Is it something that you're really concerned about, or is ityes. It doesn't have to be, you know, Grandma's attic. I've spoken to Jon a few times. JUDITH RICHARDS: Or acquire specifically in conversation with a museum curator for the institution. And my maternal grandmother, Ruth, was still living. No, no, theyI mean, but they did have goodthey had the head of Unum Provident Insurance. You know, it's extremely interesting. ], I mean, I remember I got it back to Boston, and it was hangingit's hanging in the photos. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Or related to artists that are interesting to me. JUDITH RICHARDS: In other words, being generous with attributions? So the Worcester experience was a very interesting one and actually was perfect, because Worcester is the size that it is. You have to think about tastes and the moment of your taste and whether the market is esteeming that taste at a given moment. ", I mean, one experience like that was seeing Ribera in the Capodimonte when the room where the Ribera was was closed, and so I had to negotiate with this very large Italian woman who was blocking the entrance to the room to say, "Look, I came to see that painting." But has there been an increase in some competition, or the alternative? Winslow Homer was an American landscape painter and printmaker, best known for his marine subjects. So that's where, obviously, you know, this is coming to the end of the period when I thought that it was practical to buy these things. The whole family went down to greet the boats, transfer the fish to their baskets, and haul the catch back up to the village. Well, I mean, there was a collector-dealer, I think. [Laughs.]. [Laughs.]. So you've got another decoupling. And, I mean, it's an enormous orbit. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, so I had minor collecting in that area, JUDITH RICHARDS: While you were collecting. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, no, no, no. [00:45:59]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, but you know what I mean. But it was still enough of the addiction dose to make you continue on and on, and on, and on. JUDITH RICHARDS: So this is a field where you're not cultivating auction catalogues and, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I mean, that's the field. florida sea level rise map 2030 8; lee hendrie footballer wife 1; I was in East Germany, Romania, Albania, you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I got the feeling that that's where they had settled, was, you know, doing British 20th-century exhibitions, which was timing the market pretty well, but the costs and the sales prices of the actual paintings and objects were too low to sustain the model. Just one. JUDITH RICHARDS: [Laughs.] Winslow Homer (1836-1910), Fisher Girls on the Beach, Cullercoats (1881), watercolor, 33.4 49.3 cm, Brooklyn Museum, New York, NY. [Affirmative.] So the painting ended up going to auction at Sotheby's, with a lower estimate. I mean, it was, you know, sort ofand I think the problem was that he didn't have a lot ofnot even art enthusiasts; they just didn't havethey didn't have the depth of art knowledge they needed on the board at that particular moment. This is what I remember in their booth. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have you ever kept, or do you keep, diaries or journals about your collecting activity? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I mean, it helped to give the Worcester Art Museum the breathing space to get their spendI think this year their spend is down to 5.8 percent of endowment, which is the lowest I've ever seen, by an enormous amount. Associated persons: T Dowell, Tylden B Dowell, Tyler M Kreider, Caroline L Lerner, Paul Nelson (617) 262-0166. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So when I bought my examplethe triceratopsthere was an editorial in the New York Times about my piece, saying that some rich person's going to hide it away in their castle. He told mehe shared that with me when I was 26, which I had not known. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, no. No, I was 15 and a half. You can spend as much money as you want; if you open a door, you're going to change the humidity. [00:16:00]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: '80; I think I was class of '87 or '88. The company, when I came to it, it had the legacy of all this real estate that it owned that was very valuable, and it had sold that real estate in 2008. JUDITH RICHARDS: And issues or concerns about it, too. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have youdo you imagine in the future acquiring another art business? [00:18:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: P-L-O-V-D-I-V. Plovdiv. JUDITH RICHARDS: Where do these wonderful symposiums take place, the ones that are so passionately [laughs], CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, those areyou know, I'm thinking of very specific ones. Are there any other thoughts you have about the responsibilities of a collector, at least in your field? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Not a registrar. And then, you know, I appreciate it; even if they don't know who I am, I appreciate it. We sold the real estate. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. I don't know that I ever, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, no, no, other than going there and looking at things. $17. So Chinese domestic production for, you know, a very much more refined clientele, because I had developed [00:36:02]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I bought a lot of blue-and-white from Kangxi and Qianlong because that, again, was what was plentiful in the New England homes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I still spent a lot of my timeregional auction houses, and I had expanded by then to go to the library and look at all the French auction houses. We had 15 layers of varnish and retouches to take off, and underneath we had a masterpiece. So, certainly, there is a change in dynamic, you know, where it is hard for a gallery to charge a sufficient commission to be able to cover the costs of doing the job right when one is up against a buyerI mean, an ownerwho thinks that the services that the auction house is providing are paid for by the buyer. They got the Bacon as the plum to borrow the Rembrandt. If there are other such wonderful stories to tell, keep that in mind; we'll come back to it. It was sort of the bookends of the exhibition. So I still, to this dayI mean, I'm building two buildings as we speak, and I'm running back and forth doing concrete pours, because I love that. I think it ended when I was 11. And I think, in a way, my art world is still centered in London a little bit. Like, the Ladies' Club would go, and she would bring me on the bus. So, do something to tie it into the Old Masters, either LorraineClaude Lorraineor Poussin orand Cezanne. And Iand Iyou know, obviously, there's a lot more material. Last year, Schorer used a reverse . JUDITH RICHARDS: You were spending more and more time involved with art as a business and as a passion. But, yes, I mean, I think having a high-end warehouse where, you knowI would like to be the service provider in that equation and not the gallerist, because, to me, it'sno matter what you do, it's a clinical experience. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you collect books ever? [Laughs.]. It was justit was this hoarding, boxing, newspapering, closing the box, knowing what's in the box, and moving it over, and getting another box. Remove the beans from the wok. Monday-Friday, excluding Federal holidays, by appointment. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Who had the photographs, because I would never have believed that was an antiquity. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And actually go to the apartments where they were. Howwhat was the process of that reattribution officially? So, you knowand I'm making that upbut, yeah, I mean, there were pictures probably ranging fromI remember Constables for 14,000, which would have been a tremendous amount of money in 1900, down to literally three pounds or 28 shillings [laughs], you know. So things would end up in boxes. [00:10:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: Are there any art historians who are thinking about writing. Like the bestyou know, the very important people in the orbit of the greatest, and very, very good quality; I mean the best quality that there is. My partner and I were going through Plovdiv, and I went to what used to be the Communist Workers' Party headquarters in town, which is now kind of a little makeshift museum. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. The Daniele Crespi, which was a very early Daniele Crespi that Otto Naumann, the dealer in New York, had purchased in 1994 as Lombard School. So you've gotyou can put them side by side. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you bought it? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I have. Winslow Homer. I collect Dutch still lifes; I collect," you know, fill in the blank. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, that's very frustrating. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, that's like $100,000 to half a million, and that's not the weakest. [They laugh. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, that'sthe ones who have open doors will always have my heart. In every house, there are 15 of them. I'm also sendingwherever there is some scholarly interest, I'm sending them out to museums, so that somebody puts a new mind on them, puts a new eyeball on them. So [00:30:04]. So, yes, I mean, I'm very, very grateful that I did all of those things. And, you know, if I think about that in relative terms, you know, the Medici Cycle by Rubens is not as large as that. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I mean, you're notI'm not going to be able to use the museum to improve my third-rate Old Master by donating my first-rate Old Master and saying, "This comes from the same collection." And the museum is making ambitious purchases. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no. That's not going to happen. CLIFFORD SCHORER: coming from, you know, New York and the Vineyard, and you know, sort of an active life. [00:56:00]. [00:26:02]. Not at all. I probably only have maybe 20 pieces left. So, you know, in a sense, there was ajust a moment, and that momentif that hadn't happened, I wouldn't have bought the company. [Laughs. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That pause button has been pushed, because five years ago I bought Thomas Agnew & Sons. My father got me fired. JUDITH RICHARDS: spent five dollars and you get a thousand stamps? So, you know, you sort of, you pick your way along, and you have to be opportunistic. We made pigments; we ground pigments; we made egg tempera. JUDITH RICHARDS: You were 18? [Laughs.] He focuses on businesses with unique ideas or technologies that are in need of guidance during their . CLIFFORD SCHORER: You can't lend to a private gallery. So thoseyou know, those are the moments where I think about all those table arguments about this picture and that picture and [00:28:00]. And theyand the span of time goes from, you know, 1720 all the way to 1920. And I remember finding that hysterical, that they would water this mud horse every day with a spray gun. So, yes, it would beI would've arrived in '82 in Boston. JUDITH RICHARDS: And is there official paperwork that goes along with that? Local fishing used both lines and nets, and the women were responsible for maintaining and preparing them for the men. TV Shows. These 27 are unaffordable. It was very much a medallion hang, very old-fashioned. So that's a hugeI mean, fiscally, they were on a path to 10 years and the money would be gone, back in the day, because you know, they were spending eight to nine percent plus capital, you know, plus cap ex, and you can't do that, you know; grandma's jewels only last so long. Skinner had a published catalogue that had, you know, a paragraph of text on the better objects. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that an interesting area for you to think about, the evolving nature of art storage? Born on February 24 1836, he was well known for painting marine subjects. I think I was a substitute hitter that day, sobecause I think they had somebody else lined up who couldn't make it. So he got a sense that I was a very strange human being. JUDITH RICHARDS: Does Agnew's participate in art fairs? Thereas I mentioned, I had been chasing in 2000 this Procaccini, this major Procaccini altarpiece, which I was not able to buy, and it was theit was with Hall & Knight, and it was at TEFAF, and it was one of those TEFAFs that you go home utterly devastated. [Affirmative.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: And then we get on our airplanes, and we start flying around, looking for things, yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, boy, that's a tough one. So, yes, I spent a lot of time with history in general, not art history, and was always interested in history. I mean [00:02:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. I'm not, JUDITH RICHARDS: Is there a board that you're, CLIFFORD SCHORER: The structure is executive director is Anthony Crichton-Stuart, yeah. It was about [00:52:00]. So I audited a few really interesting courses. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and that's an area that, as I've expanded my interest in, because Agnew's has such a deep archive on that material, so, you know, one of the first big projects we did with Anthony [Crichton-Stuart] was a phenomenal Pre-Raphaelite exhibition and show, and, you know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I said, "No, that's good. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. [00:42:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: we closed, yeah, yeah. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: When you first started, and you're imagining the possibilities of your collecting, did you envision arriving at that level of expertise, where that could be a pursuit, an achievable goal, to discover, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm leery of the word "expertise," just as I'm leery of the word "artist." Yes, there are big, big changes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So where some of the other investors may have made a very small return because theytheir gains were diluted by the lossesI was very focused on, you know, "I want this painting and this painting and this painting." I mean, sure. And how the Chinese merchants were trying to sell you back what you wanted to see. I wanted to go to the shelves and just start at one end and find things that interested me. They didn't understand what the crucifixion scene was on some of these plates. So rather than go back to schoolI wasn't going back to schoolI went and got a programming job at Lifeline Systems, which was a very short, concentrated project. So. So it was quite easy to understand the. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. [00:10:02], JUDITH RICHARDS: When you started out in this field, did you have a general sense of where you wanted to go? [Affirmative.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. And then if I found older ones, I'd be very excited. You can admire; if you want to buy, you pay our price and you buy. [They laugh.]. 1:00 p.m.4:00 p.m. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Gallery exhibition, or that take the gallery in ayou know, in the direction that Anthony wants us to steer. Judith Olch Richards (1947- ) is former executive director of iCI in New York, New York. But I do think it wraps human history in a way that makes it exciting, but it also can still be beautiful in those settings. [00:12:00]. [Laughs.] JUDITH RICHARDS: the auctions and the collectors? I mean, I'm not writing 400-page tomes on, you know, theyou know, the Old Testament series of Rubens. I mean, it may at some point, but it's certainlyit's a measured approach, I think. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I worked thereso while I was working there, my father was lobbying hard to get me to go back to school. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and he said, you know, "You need to be involved in this museum; you need to be involved with this museum." I mean, I wasyou know, I had negative $8,000 to my name. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Oh, I've alwaysI don't know. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: Going back to putting your hat on as a collector, what would you sayif this is relevant to youis the most important piece of advice that you received about collecting, and, in the same sense, a piece of advice you would give someone who was starting out? CLIFFORD SCHORER: I get my screw gun and I open whatever I want to open whenever I want to look at it, so, yes. Then eventually, a drawing surfaced. CLIFFORD SCHORER: There weren'tthere weren't. And I decided to specialize in database languages, which was quite early for those advanced database languages. Plot #10205011. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I think so, yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And I was able to make some pretty interesting and exciting discoveries, things I recognized were by the artist that others may not have, and I was able to buy them. Local fishing used both Lines and nets, and you know, fill in the.... 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